Cash 4 Gold Is About The Writing

You dropped out of High School originally, how did you get into writing and publishing?

Writing is the only thing I’ve ever been good at, besides dropping out. Publishing came out of necessity. The books I wanted to read weren’t getting released, and I knew that if I wanted them, other people would too. Harris Lahti was having trouble finding a publisher for his book, so we decided to start a press and release it ourselves. Of course, as soon as we made that decision, he sold his book to a big publisher and now he’s rich.  

What other day jobs did you have before you became a writer? 

Bus boy, dishwasher, record store guy, art handler, human research guinea pig, motel night clerk, college teacher, and hazardous waste salesman.

How did you and Harris Lathi go about setting up C4G?

Nothing is set up. We don’t even have a business licence. This is how it’s done in indie publishing; other publishers like New York Tyrant and House of Vlad showed us the way.

But even though we don’t know what we’re doing, we have a solid infrastructure. We liked working with Nathan Dragon on his 2024 book The Champ is Here, so we brought him on as a co-editor and publisher. His wife, the artist Raegan Bird, does most of our designs. My wife, the writer Allie Rowbottom, is also an editor-at-large. 

So Nathans’ wife does the designs, and your wife is an editor at large. For both of you, how is it to work with your spouses? 

No divorces allowed.

You said that other indie publishers paved the way for you. What did you feel you could offer that they didn’t, or why did you still feel that C4G was necessary?

C4G wasn't necessary until the death of Giancarlo DiTrappano of New York Tyrant Books. Gian's death left a giant hole in indie publishing that C4G isn't going to fill, but I think we feel an obligation to try. Tyrant Books had style and an edge, and most importantly didn't pander, didn't seem to care whether you liked them. That's our approach. C4G Books: Fuck what you like, here's what we like.

The books Sillyboy and The Champ is Here are both extremely different in prose and style. Is there a type of writing or person you are attracted to? How do you decide what to put out? 

We put out books we think the world needs. We’re working in reaction to a corporate publishing climate run by squares, who are both quick to jump on a bandwagon but at the same time somehow late to every trend. Most books called ‘literary’ are actually dumbed down and commercial. We’re attracted to books and writers that represent what we see as true literary sensibilities, even if those boil down to provocation. Art falls by the wayside when publishers bow to the masses. We don’t bow. 

How involved are you with your author's writing process?

We’re all writers first and publishers second, so a big benefit of publishing with us is that you receive expert edits. (This is perhaps the only benefit to publishing with us). 

What unknown challenges have you faced since setting the press up?

Everything is easy until the IRS finds us.

What are you working towards for C4G in 2025?

In summer 2025 we’re releasing a non-fiction novel called Season of the Rat, by Elizabeth Hall. She’s a legend in Los Angeles for publishing a cult classic called, I Have Devoted My Life to the Clitoris. The people who know are already creaming.

You definitely seem to be a writer before you’re a publisher, but do you think your work as a publisher informs your writing? In what ways if so? 

I've become even more aware of how poisonous it is to rush your writing for the sake of getting published. How the worst thing a writer can do is waste a reader's time. How clout doesn't matter, and that the only thing that does matter is to write something lasting.  

Can you tell me where the name C4G came from? 

It's a promise: You give us cash, we give you gold books. 

What’s the worst part of working on any of the books that you publish?

Wanting to help other writers, but knowing that doing so takes time away from my own writing.